With head thrown back and long throat,
Crying Euai! in the Baccanalia.
Lysios attends the dance and with one touch
Even the strong heart breaks open.
Abandoning sorrow, loss, and desire,
Leaving this poet bereft of curious craft,
Having remained too long in revels
I can no longer find my way
Through the houses, through the town
Where our children were born. Our home
Is now the Wilds, where I can dance unceasingly
With your ghost.
Anybody know if this shit is accurate? Asking for me.
as far as how the ancients pronounced it vs. modern greek, given regional differences and whatnot, your guess is as good as mine…
but:
i find it fascinating that its fourth definition is a form of creeping plant… some form of ivy, perhaps?
the delphi dichotomy showing up nicely there, with an aesklepius connection to boot.
@beardedeldridge hi and thanks for the tag… let’s see, my phone’s current lock screen, last song, and last thing saved:
lock screen:
to which i’ll just add:
“ιο πυρ πνειοντων χοραγ αστερων, νυχιων φθεγματων επισκοπε, παι διος γενεθλον, προφανηθ ωναξ, σαις αμα περιπολοις θυιασιν, αι σε μαινομεναι παννυχοι χορευουσι τον ταμιαν ιακχον!”
last song… hmmn well this is probably the most likely culprit:
last thing saved:
tagging: well you! if you want to ;)
So astro tumblr, I need some help.
So, I have a huge problem with stalkers, it’s relatively consistent. After one of my friends pointed out that there’s just something about me that seems to attract this type of person, it made me really curious. Is there some kind of aspect or something that would attract this kind of energy into your life? Including both my tropical and my sidereal for reference
This is actually a little bit of a traumatizing experience and rationalizing it away like this is how i help to cope 😓. I know that not one single “aspect” could point to this but someone humor me for a minute
hi!
regarding your question: “Is there some kind of aspect or something that would attract this kind of energy into your life?” looking at your chart, i would say yes; there is more than one dynamic involved here, but “stalkers” are one situation that could manifest. that doesn’t mean they *must* manifest, but certainly within the realm of the possible.
fyi i use the sidereal zodiac, but aspects don’t change between the two systems. sign placement, depositorships, house placements, and so forth do sometimes change - but the relative distance between the planets is not affected by the switch, so aspects are consistent between the two. also i use the “whole-sign” house system, which basically means the zodiac sign boundaries also demarcate the houses. this can be significant change: for example, using placidus (like you have in the images) pluto, the sun, and mercury are all in your 3rd house, while jupiter, mars, and venus are in your 4th. with whole sign houses pluto, the sun, mercury, and jupiter are in the 4th (because they are all in scorpio) while mars, venus, and neptune are in the 5th (sagittarius).
moving on to the chart, here are some of the dynamics that might be relevant:
jupiter
the first thing that stood out was the condition of jupiter in your chart. jupiter is situated late in scorpio ruled by mars and on the term (or bound) of saturn. mars made a conjunction with jupiter but has now moved past him into the next sign, sagittarius, but is just over 6º away. jupiter has also recently completed a square aspect with saturn in aquarius. when a planet is situated between the influence of two malefics it creates a condition called “besiegement,” also known as “enclosure.” technically, besiegement occurs when both malefics are *applying* to the planet in question from either side. thankfully, that is not the case in your chart. here both malefics are losing influence over jupiter because they are separating from him, but jupiter is still in the “danger zone” between the two.
besiegement is about as fun as it sounds - the planet in question is “stuck between a rock and a hard place.” it is the quintessential catch-22, damned if you do/damned if you don’t. but in this chart it is not “full on” besiegement, since the malefics are leaving jupiter behind. another good mitigating factor in your sidereal chart is the mutual reception between jupiter and mars. this is great, because it makes mars more receptive to jupiter’s influence and they have the potential to work well together. to me, these two mitigating factors seem to indicate that the “stuck between a rock and a hard place” dynamic will likely get better over time.
how does this specifically relate to “stalkers”? well, jupiter rules your 5th house of love, romance, pleasurable activities, and creative expression (sagittarius) and the 8th house of difficult subjects like death, debts, secrets, and transformations. the 4th house, where jupiter is located, is also considered a house of secrets and hidden things (along with other very personal subjects such as family, lineage, home environment, parents). saturn rules the houses of work, subordinates, disease, enemies (6th house capricorn) and the house of marriage, legal issues, opponents, partnerships (7th house aquarius). mars and venus being so close to each other in jupiter’s sign adds a lot of intensity to 5th house affairs, while neptune’s presence muddies the waters. sagittarius loves its freedom, but saturn in aquarius wants clearly defined relationships. and saturn probably wants to control those relationships. navigating through the heavy, restrictive influence of saturn and the brazen, take-no-prisoners attitude of mars is where jupiter (the ruler of fun, pleasure, art, and romance) finds himself in this chart.
the moon
the moon intervenes by sextile between jupiter and mars, which might be a mitigating factor - she is the ruling sect light, but she also rules the 12th house of self-undoing, secret enemies, exile, and spiritual attainment. she is moving away from jupiter and applying to mars, which probably brings some benefit, but she also seems to reduce clarity making it harder to accurately gauge the situation. this may indicate being unconsciously drawn to draining situations and people.
the sun
the sun is the ruler of the ascendant and so is very consequential to the chart. assuming the birth time is accurate, this sun is just past the nadir or lowest point in the chart. the nadir, or imum coeli, is considered the most hidden part of the chart. this may play a role in the dynamic here. the sun, which should be the brightest “planet” of all is near the place where he is most hidden, hardest to be seen. scorpio sun signs are generally mysterious to begin with, but placed in the 4th house (a “hidden house”) near the nadir, well, that adds a whole other level of enigma. the 1st house is how we interact with the world, how we interface, and this chart seems to indicate being behind-the-scenes is the standard operating procedure. obviously, this is also a night chart. in night charts the moon takes on more importance (she becomes the sect light or “leader” of the chart) while the sun takes more of a back seat. (being a night chart influences other things like making jupiter weaker, making saturn more overbearing, and such.)
as a consequence it may be that other people project an image of who they think you are in lieu of really knowing you. also some people are attracted (or obsess) over the things they find mysterious. pluto and the sun being so close, some of that obsessive, hyper-focused attention may be coming from that separating conjunction (which is also in scorpio).
the sun is not really in a bad condition and there are some advantages to his placement: he’s in an angular house, co-present with jupiter, and on his own decan. he does make a wide, though still relevant, sign-based square with saturn (who i think is the real culprit in this situation).
mercury
mercury is the ruler of the 11th house house of social circles, friends, associations and is therefore probably also relevant to this discussion. mercury is combust - hidden by the light of the sun. this is not an unusual state for mercury, of all the planets s/he probably handles this condition the best. s/he is moving out of this state, which helps alleviate the debility somewhat. they are, however, even closer to the nadir than the sun. these factors indicate that mercury is hidden from view and moving in regions out of sight. friends and acquaintances may be “difficult to see” even though they are close to you. it is possible that this plays a role in the stalker situation, since stalkers tend to like to move without being noticed. another interpretation of this dynamic could be that your circle of friends tends to be overlooked. the impression that you are “on your own” or “unaccompanied” by others (while wrong) may be attractive to those looking for easy prey.
mercury is also very close to the fixed star antares. the MC/IC axis sits on the potent stars aldebaran & antares, which may or may not play a direct role in this situation, but is a notable feature in this chart. the influence of mercury combined with antares is described as “suspicious, wrongfully accuses friends, uses ecclesiastical influence in business, money obtained slowly and with much difficulty, danger of sickness to the native and their family, and death of a relative at home or away.” with mercury ruling the house of friends it is entirely possible that this delineation could be projected onto friends rather than you, which might account for stalker-like behavior. mercury is more than 1º from antares, so this influence isn’t in full effect, but s/he is applying to the star so it might be worth taking into account.
remediation and propitiation
so what can be done to mitigate these dynamics and get different outcomes? it is important to remember that, while we can’t change our charts, every chart placement has many potential outcomes. we follow patterns, yes, but we are not bound to repeat the same results. remediation and propitiation generally follows one of two lines: capitalize on the beneficial placements or ameliorate the malefic. in general, it is usually a good idea to start with the beneficial forces and then tackle the more negative. but everyone has to decide what approach works for them.
remediation can take the form of charity (through service or donating money to causes), spiritual practices (meditation, devotion, prayer), magickal practice (ritual, talismans), certain gems and crystals to increase planetary energies, or even by dedicating energy to activities related to the planet in question (i.e. sports for mars, writing for mercury). generally speaking, spiritual and charitable propitiations are “safe” for everyone regardless of the planet’s placement or condition in their chart. on the other hand, it’s wise to be cautious when using magick or gems to approach the difficult energies in our chart - those tend to work better for the friendly forces. but there’s lots of room to be creative in this regard, so this is by no means a definitive list. intention and execution matter equally in these matters. small but regular devotions are often better than large, one-time offerings.
it seems like jupiter is in the most need here, while saturn is the most difficult element to handle. working with mars in conjunction with jupiter would make a lot of sense, given the mutual reception they share. but it would probably be best to start with jupiter. strengthening the sun is also a good idea, since he rules the ascendant. after (working with jupiter, the sun, and then maybe mars) some kind of saturn remediation could help soften his overbearing expression.
if you’d like to address planetary remediation more specifically, i’d be glad to help with suggestions or bouncing ideas around. but, as in all things, consult your own spiritual/religious/cultural/intuitive compass - whatever form that takes and works for you. “sincerity forgives many faults,” and approaching these sorts of activities with pure intentions is really the first crucial step.
also, keep in mind that as the planets transit through your chart they can aspect your natal positions and “activate” latent dynamics. for example, whenever a planet moves over jupiter’s position in scorpio, it will also be interacting with the saturn-mars dynamic. this can be helpful for figuring out “what’s going on” if the situation you find yourself in isn’t clear.
i hope this may be of some help or use. if something is confusing or you’d like to give feedback, please do let me know.
keys, phone, wallet - wait, one last ritual before stepping out…
twenty seconds warm and sudsy,
then a dash of glycerolized alcohol
offerings to the Lord of the Persona
“…hunted like a hare
death by rending…”
a grim visage dawning
a smiling frown or frowning smile
who can see?
a false face, a protective covering
half-tragic, half-comedic
a pretense, a disguise
fog on glass or the bite of elastic behind ears
serpents writhing through labyrinthine hair
chin and temple, ear and crown
to whisper while they wear the chorus down
“did you wash your hands my dear?
that’s it, nice and tight, no gaps?
coil us a bit tighter and we’ll sing…”
“…hunted like a hare
death by rending…”
outside the unveiled rally
unbridled satyrs, muffle-less maenads
promising to demystify, no religions left
to conspire in the deep state
untrusted, untrusting, goat-throated singing
“…hunted like a hare
death by rending…”
the muzzled voices move
a void six
no eight
now ten feet they dance
different steps but the tune remains
“…hunted like a hare
death by rending…”
it’s an exponential tune
the thrumming sound vent-too-late
to end the hymn to madness
holding lies to cloak the truth
all sing the chorus
“…hunted like a hare
death by rending…”
who thought only the silver bow could bring the plague?
oh man of sorrows revel in your year
you chose your dance - mask or crown
blame not the stars for how you wove your fate
“…hunted like a hare…”
“O Leader of the chorus of the stars whose breath is fire, overseer of the chants in the night, son begotten of Zeus, appear, my king, with your attendant Thyiads, who in night-long frenzy dance and sing you as Iacchus the Giver! ἰὼ πῦρ πνειόντων χοράγ᾽ ἄστρων, νυχίων φθεγμάτων ἐπίσκοπε, παῖ Διὸς γένεθλον, προφάνηθ᾽ ὦναξ, σαῖς ἅμα περιπόλοις Θυίαισιν, αἵ σε μαινόμεναι πάννυχοι χορεύουσι τὸν ταμίαν Ἴακχον.”
— Sophocles, Antigone 1146-1154 [ X ]
@imperturbitude Material available on the topic exists but is getting a bit old. Unfortunately, the main thesis about the topic is out of stock and nowhere to be found on the Internet. Maybe you can find it in a libary though: Valerie J. Hutchinson, Bacchus in Roman Britain, Volumes i and ii: The Evidence for His Cult, Oxford: BAR Publishings, 1986.
There is another study that is now unfindable and probably never translated from French that you can also try to find: Isabelle Tassignon, Iconographie et religion dionysiaques en Gaule Belgique et dans les deux Germanies, Geneva: Droz, 1996. This last one focused on the dionysiac iconography found in the Belgium and German area. I found a peer-review of that study that highlights its flaws, but what we can take from it is that, we find in this area dionysiac iconography, which was probably brought by the thousands of Roman veterans in the Rhine area but doesn’t necessarily mean that the cult was widespread outside of this demographic.
When it comes to Roman Britain, thankfully, other authors were able to cite Hutchinson’s work, so we can catch snippets here and there. I recommend you check “Religion in Roman Britain” by Martin Henig (1984) and “Religion in Late Roman Britain” by Dorothy Watts (1998), which are the books I have complete access to and are my sources for the summarization I am about to give.
Henig tells us that “Bacchus was much better known to Romans and to most Romanised Britons” compared to the other oriental cults that were gaining in popularity during this period (mainly Isis, Cybele and especially Mithra). There is indeed plenty of iconographic representations that focus either on Bacchus or on a dionysiac retinue (maenads, Silenus and satyrs). Watts tells us that:
“Bacchus […] had a wider following and he may have been a relatively early import to Britain: Dionysius ‘Periegetes’, writing around the time of the Emperor Hadrian (AD 117–38), tells of islands near Jersey and Guernsey where the rites of Bacchus were performed.”
While it is true that Bacchus-Dionysus has a secure place in the Greco-Roman pantheon, we need to consider his cult in Roman Britain (and other romanized areas, especially along the limes) as linked to the popularity of Oriental cults as a whole. In this context, Dionysus is a savior god who comes from the East, and particularly from India (an idea we also find in Nonnus’ Dionysiaca).
Hening explains it better than I do:
[…] the Walbrook Mithraeum was probably taken over by his [Bacchus] followers in the fourth century. The little statuary group showing Bacchus with a serpent, a Satyr, a Silenus, and a Maenad with its inscribed base acclaiming the god as the giver of (eternal) life to wandering men has been dated as early as the third century AD, but its archaeological context at any rate is later and like the statuette of Bacchus from a grave at the Spoonley Wood villa […]
The Dionysiac cult performed in late-Antiquity Britain doesn’t seem to be official cultus but is linked to mystery cults instead, which would explain both the emphasis on the savior aspect and the presence of Dionysiac cult in a Mithraeum. Hening also exposes to us elements that further lead towards this conclusion:
A marble figurine of Bacchus was buried with one of the owners(?) of the Spoonley Wood villa, while the lead coffin from Holborough near Snodland, Kent, is ornamented with the figures of a maenad and a satyr.Here a large Y is shown on the lid of the coffin, which may be an Orphic symbol denoting moral choice in life. Pecten-shells, also included in the composition, symbolise the soul’s journey to the Blessed Isles. Jocelyn Toynbee has noted of this coffin that ‘once the interment had taken place, the decoration could have no effect on any living persons’. Thus the motifs were designed for the benefit of the dead and express the beliefs of the relatives who were ‘if not members of a Bacchic sect, at least conversant with the common stock of doctrines and picture symbols of Bacchic other-worldly theology.
Another interesting point is raised by Watts, where she notes the virtual absence of oriental and mystery cults in the most rural areas of Britain. I don’t think it’s far-fetched to think that this was predominantly an urban phenomenon and in this case, it would follow the pattern of the long tradition of Dionysiac associations.
thank you @thegrapeandthefig!
this is just the sort of thing i was looking for - glad to have the references, even the harder to find ones.
i would have guessed (wrongly in all likelihood) that the wine trade would have played a significant role in transporting the bacchic influence north following in the wake of the military.
it is interesting to think about the urban-rural paradox in association with the roman military, both as an invading force and a construction powerhouse. they were building walls, roads, founding cities, expanding the boundaries of the empire by civilizing subjugating “savages,” and all the while bringing the worship of Αγριος, Λυαιος, and Ζαγρευς with them.
again, thanks for the leads. something to follow up on in a well-stocked university library at some point in the post-covid future…
I have not personally examined Miranda Aldhouse-Green’s Sacred Britannia: The Gods and Rituals of Roman Britain (Thames & Hudson, 2018) but it might have some bearing on the subject.
A search for viniculture in Gaul and Roman Britain might turn up some useful information. I found New Evidence on Origins of Winemaking in France, which led me to Wine and the Etruscan IV: the wine into the social life and religion. (I did not know the kantharos of Dionysus was Etruscan in origin.)
I assume objects depicting Bacchus or Dionysus indicate some level of cult activity, and there have been some wonderful archaeological finds from Roman Britain and northern Europe.
Carver, Emma. The Visibility of Imported Wine and Its Associated Accoutrements in Later Iron Age Britain. Oxford: BAR Publishing, 2001. Abstract: https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/The-Visibility-of-Imported-Wine-and-Its-Associated-Carver/b88717248c4b3fd885a18ca2fe8974963ab6c6db
Davis, Austin. “From Massalia to Marseille: How the Ancient Greeks Influence(d) Provencal Cuisine”. (Just a brief mention, but the list of sources might provide some leads.) https://adhc.lib.ua.edu/globalfoodways/from-massalia-to-marseille-how-the-ancient-greeks-influenced-provencal-cuisine/
Drummons, John G. Mystery Cults in Roman Britain. 2013. https://www.academia.edu/9993842/Mystery_Cults_in_Roman_Britain
Digging Ancient Art – Literally: Cologne’s Dionysus Mosaic
Grey, Kaitlynn. Grape Flasks of Third-Century Cologne: An Investigation into Roman Glass and Dionysus. 2018. https://etd.ohiolink.edu/!etd.send_file?accession=kent152685668282561&disposition=inline
Raddato, Carole. Roman silver cup decorated with stylized flower, leaf motifs and mythological figures depicting the world of the god of wine Bacchus, Museum het Valkhof, Nijmegen (Netherlands). https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Roman_silver_cup_decorated_with_stylized_flower,_leaf_motifs_and_mythological_figures_depicting_the_world_of_the_god_of_wine_Bacchus,_Museum_het_Valkhof,_Nijmegen_(Netherlands)_(9567021337).jpg
Veen, Christal. Bacchus and Jupiter-Ammon, two bronze sculptures from Roman Nijmegen, the Netherlands. BABESCH 89 (2014) , 129-147. https://www.academia.edu/9236748/Bacchus_and_Jupiter_Ammon_two_bronze_sculptures_from_Roman_Nijmegen_the_Netherlands
“Worshipping the party god – evidence of Bacchus in Lincolnshire.“ https://romanlincolnshire.wordpress.com/2017/08/05/evidence-of-bacchus-in-lincolnshire/
Good luck, and happy researching!
@honorthegods thank you so much for these additional leads; my kylix overfloweth, as the saying goes!
@imperturbitude Material available on the topic exists but is getting a bit old. Unfortunately, the main thesis about the topic is out of stock and nowhere to be found on the Internet. Maybe you can find it in a libary though: Valerie J. Hutchinson, Bacchus in Roman Britain, Volumes i and ii: The Evidence for His Cult, Oxford: BAR Publishings, 1986.
There is another study that is now unfindable and probably never translated from French that you can also try to find: Isabelle Tassignon, Iconographie et religion dionysiaques en Gaule Belgique et dans les deux Germanies, Geneva: Droz, 1996. This last one focused on the dionysiac iconography found in the Belgium and German area. I found a peer-review of that study that highlights its flaws, but what we can take from it is that, we find in this area dionysiac iconography, which was probably brought by the thousands of Roman veterans in the Rhine area but doesn’t necessarily mean that the cult was widespread outside of this demographic.
When it comes to Roman Britain, thankfully, other authors were able to cite Hutchinson’s work, so we can catch snippets here and there. I recommend you check “Religion in Roman Britain” by Martin Henig (1984) and “Religion in Late Roman Britain” by Dorothy Watts (1998), which are the books I have complete access to and are my sources for the summarization I am about to give.
Henig tells us that “Bacchus was much better known to Romans and to most Romanised Britons” compared to the other oriental cults that were gaining in popularity during this period (mainly Isis, Cybele and especially Mithra). There is indeed plenty of iconographic representations that focus either on Bacchus or on a dionysiac retinue (maenads, Silenus and satyrs). Watts tells us that:
“Bacchus […] had a wider following and he may have been a relatively early import to Britain: Dionysius ‘Periegetes’, writing around the time of the Emperor Hadrian (AD 117–38), tells of islands near Jersey and Guernsey where the rites of Bacchus were performed.”
While it is true that Bacchus-Dionysus has a secure place in the Greco-Roman pantheon, we need to consider his cult in Roman Britain (and other romanized areas, especially along the limes) as linked to the popularity of Oriental cults as a whole. In this context, Dionysus is a savior god who comes from the East, and particularly from India (an idea we also find in Nonnus’ Dionysiaca).
Hening explains it better than I do:
[…] the Walbrook Mithraeum was probably taken over by his [Bacchus] followers in the fourth century. The little statuary group showing Bacchus with a serpent, a Satyr, a Silenus, and a Maenad with its inscribed base acclaiming the god as the giver of (eternal) life to wandering men has been dated as early as the third century AD, but its archaeological context at any rate is later and like the statuette of Bacchus from a grave at the Spoonley Wood villa […]
The Dionysiac cult performed in late-Antiquity Britain doesn’t seem to be official cultus but is linked to mystery cults instead, which would explain both the emphasis on the savior aspect and the presence of Dionysiac cult in a Mithraeum. Hening also exposes to us elements that further lead towards this conclusion:
A marble figurine of Bacchus was buried with one of the owners(?) of the Spoonley Wood villa, while the lead coffin from Holborough near Snodland, Kent, is ornamented with the figures of a maenad and a satyr.Here a large Y is shown on the lid of the coffin, which may be an Orphic symbol denoting moral choice in life. Pecten-shells, also included in the composition, symbolise the soul’s journey to the Blessed Isles. Jocelyn Toynbee has noted of this coffin that ‘once the interment had taken place, the decoration could have no effect on any living persons’. Thus the motifs were designed for the benefit of the dead and express the beliefs of the relatives who were ‘if not members of a Bacchic sect, at least conversant with the common stock of doctrines and picture symbols of Bacchic other-worldly theology.
Another interesting point is raised by Watts, where she notes the virtual absence of oriental and mystery cults in the most rural areas of Britain. I don’t think it’s far-fetched to think that this was predominantly an urban phenomenon and in this case, it would follow the pattern of the long tradition of Dionysiac associations.
thank you @thegrapeandthefig!
this is just the sort of thing i was looking for - glad to have the references, even the harder to find ones.
i would have guessed (wrongly in all likelihood) that the wine trade would have played a significant role in transporting the bacchic influence north following in the wake of the military.
it is interesting to think about the urban-rural paradox in association with the roman military, both as an invading force and a construction powerhouse. they were building walls, roads, founding cities, expanding the boundaries of the empire by civilizing subjugating “savages,” and all the while bringing the worship of Αγριος, Λυαιος, and Ζαγρευς with them.
again, thanks for the leads. something to follow up on in a well-stocked university library at some point in the post-covid future…
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